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since Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:04:17.
Judonia Rising: What the Israel Lobby Really Is
How It Hurts the USA
What to Do About It
A Working Paper
Part I: The State of the Lobby
by Joachim Martillo (ThorsProvoni@aol.com)
The discussion of the Israel Lobby that Professors Walt and Mearsheimer created inadequately focuses on the effect of Israel advocacy on American society.
I am trying to address this issue in Judonia Rising: The Israel Lobby and American Society, which is also accessible via the resources section of my blog for Ethnic Ashkenazim Against Zionist Israel (http://eaazi.blogspot.com). The current version is an early draft. It needs more work, more explanations, appendices, some reorganization, and references (as well as removal of some redundancies). Yet, the issues that it raises are probably sufficiently important that it is worthwhile to make the document available for comments and discussion as is.
A pdf version is available at http://www.eaazi.org/ThorsProvoni/C__Judonia1.pdf.Sphere: Related Content
13 comments:
I tried to get Congressman Hamilton to comment on the Walt-Mearsheimer book not long after it came out. He would have no part of it.
http://homo-sapien-underground.blogspot.com/2008/02/tweedle-dee-and-tweedle-dumband-911.html
Interesting! So after a few years, now we are at very close positions: Jewry, a form of elite power group, migrated from Poland to the US and succeeded to re-establish itself as a ruling group again. And naturally they are as evil now as they were in their Polish heyday. And then, it is not about Palestine, but about your freedom. Very good.
I read a version of the Judonia Rising article you emailed me previously. It makes a lot of good points, but I think I would like it more if it acknowledged some of the positive things that Jewish groups and individuals have done for America. Without such admissions it seems very one sided.
I despise Zionism, but I admire and/or personally like many of the Jews I meet, and I think a majority of the gentiles I know do also. So articles that seem anti-Jewish leave a bad taste in my mouth. The enemy is Jewish racism and discrimination against others, not Jews or Judaism.
It is another article. Can you identify anything positive that the Israel Lobby has done for America?
In any case "Judonia" exploits the vast majority of Jews and has essentially parasitized Jewish communal organizations in those cases where it has not simply taken them over.
The second part of the paper will be The Genesis of the Lobby. If one carefully reads Smolenskin, Pinsker, Herzl and Nordau, it is fairly clear that their real goal is the achievement of power, status, and wealth, which they believed they deserved. They themselves had no intention of emigrating, but like much of the 19th century European political elite, they saw a colonial empire as the vehicle for the achievement of their goals, and they also realized that they could do it on the cheap with a sort of virtual colonial motherland (Judonia so to speak, a word modeled on Polonia) that taxed wealthy West European Jews by scaring up contributions and that dispatched poor Russian Jews to Palestine while the Zionist leadership as the nascent political elite of Judonia reaped the benefits.
When Judonia needed real military resourses, initially it piggybacked on the British (now it piggybacks on us) and counted on the Cousinhood of the wealthiest UK Jews. Around the 1920s some members of the Cousinhood realized they could profit directly if they exerted control, and ever since Judonia now centered in the English-speaking world has become richer and more powerful. It is a little like the history of the Dutch Empire without having to worry about dikes and flooding.
'I don't care if our pro-Zionist stance costs us' discusses Martin Peretz, who is a major player in Judonia. He mentions that African Americans have been rendered docile.
I read the whole thing. I agree with much of it and it is very well done.
I do disagree with certain things. Obviously, as a Commie, I have serious issues with the whole Bolshevik Jew thing. It's hard to argue that people who reduced the death rate by 70% in Russia were the worst killers to ever set foot in Russia. I'm so tired of debating the Bolshevik Jew thing that I don't even want to get into it anymore.
Now, for the rest. It is incorrect to say that Jewish values include early age of sexual initiation or serial polygamy. MacDonald notes that US Jews have sex at the latest age of any ethnic group. They also have some of the most stable marriages last time I checked. It's difficult to lump Thornton, an add Jew opposed to civil rights, in with a Jewish agenda that relentlessly promotes civil rights. It's very hard to say that Friedmanite freemarketeerism is part of the US Jewish agenda as most US Jewish organizations are agnostic on economics and if anything, promote liberalism, more state intervention, etc. Friedmanite-ism is part of the agenda of the neocons, but the neocon agenda in whole is embraced by only at most 20% of US Jews who vote Republican. US Jews vote up to 80% Dem in recent years. Neocons in whole are seen as a rightwing splitoff of Republican Jews whose views are rejected by the overwhelming majority of US Jews. However, on Israel, many liberal US Jews are becoming neocons in whole or in part, but the average US Jew is pretty diverse on Israel. It is better to say that the large US Jewish orgs have gone over to neoconservatism on Israel. I am still not sure that the US media can be painted as 100% Jewish owned. Murdoch is not Jewish at all I guess, but he seems to have married into a very wealthy Jewish family in Barbara Amiel, unless I am wrong. Murdoch is simply a Jewified US Gentile. Many US Gentiles are Jewified via marriage to or deep friendship with ethnocentric Jews. This aspect of US politics is overlooked in folks trying to "blame it all on the Jew".
Americans support Jews and support Israel. We are Jewified. I believe Marx said that in 100 years the US would be a Jewish country. He was correct. How those Gentiles got Jewified is open to debate. Perhaps they became Judeophiles and Zionists by brainwashing. Well so what. Most of our political views are due to propaganda of some sort. Any analysis of US Jewry, the Lobby, etc, that does not take into account all of the Gentile support for Israel is bound to fail.
US Jews have plenty of money but it is mostly in certain parts of economy. They were run out of the banks long ago and the Holocaust finished off the rest. Banks are now run by international corporations out of Japan, Hong Kong, Europe and the US. The ones in the US are not noticeably Jewish-owned. It is true that Jews are important in investment banking. They took this over back in 1910-1920 but the effort to take over the banks was resisted by Gentile ethnic warfare. Jews also tried to take over the stock market at that time but were rebuffed similarly. I do not believe that the US financial or high tech industries are run by Jews at all.
US Jews are huge in retail stores, esp clothing. Also in jewelry and furs and a few other things. They don't really dominate real estate at all.
I also disagree that a US Jewish or Zionist elite is set to take over a rather democratically diminished US. There will be some Jews in such a setup, but most will be guys like Bush, Rumsfeld, Rove and Cheney = White Gentiles, with some Blacks like Condi and Powell and some Latinos like Gonzales. Increasingly, the US is becoming a caste society and members of any race may join these hard rightwinger in their project. It's just all about money, not race, religion, ethnicity or any of that.
This undemocratic, quasi-fascist project will be resisted by many, and I assure you that liberal US Jews will be leading the charge. People see Jews leading contrary movements going head to head with each other and think it's all a Jewish plot. The truth is so much more mundane: Jews simply lead movements and are also disproportionately attracted to fanaticism and extremism in general, in part due to the nature of Judaism itself.
Critique has become a blog post here.
Here is my reply to the blog post above.
I met Murdoch a few times while he openly owned the Boston Herald.
He was into his ethnic Jewish connection even if he has no interest in Jewish religion. His mother's family the Greenes was supposed to have been very much into being ethnically Jews.
His ethnic loyalties are supposed to be a source of tension within his family or at least with his son.
Here is a summary of his ancestry that I saw on the web.
==============
Rupert (actually Keith Rupert) Murdochs father was Keith Murdoch (died 1952), his mother Elisabeth Joy (nee Greene) and yes her mother, Marie Grace de Lancey Forth was born from a jewish mother.
Ruperts paternal grandfather, Patrick John, was the REV., the maternal grandmother was Marie Grace de Lancey Forth, who was born in Warnambool VIC (Australia), HER mother Caroline Jemima (nee Sherson) was born to a jewish family, hence by "jewish law", making Rupert jewish.
Also for the record, it was not unheard of "way back then" for Protestants or Catholics to marry jews and I know this as my grandparents are prime example. My grandfather, born Ireland, 1895 to a prominent protestant family, married a jewish woman, making my father and all his siblings jews.
The jewish ancestry comes purely from the MATERNAL line and has squat to do with the paternal.
It should also be noted that many jewish familys settled in Australia post 1788.
To the initial poster. Here is a starting point got you to check on Ruperts heritage. I hope it helps you in your quest.(link below)
PS. Frankly, I don't understand what the big deal IS about him being "technically" a jew.
Why does everyone care so much anyway? *shrug*
=============
As for early sexual initiation it makes a big difference whether one refers to ethnic Jews (ethnic Yiddish) or religious Jews. I am referring to ethnic Yiddish or ethnic Ashkenazi.
Ethnic Ashkenazim have an historic pattern of early marriage followed by divorce and then repeated several times again.
Among Catholic and Orthodox populations in E. Europe, they were considered promiscuous.
=================
From the standpoint of Russian and Russian Jewish history the disproportionate involvement of Jews in the upper ranks of the Russian and Soviet Communist Party is important.
Radicalism in the Czarist Empire tended to be a sort of revenge of Russianized populations, who felt they were prevented from rising as high as they should because the Empire favored ethnic Russians.
Russian Jews were important to Lenin because of all Russianized populations only they were prohibited from serving in the government (with some specific exceptions).
Thus as Communists they were considered some of the most trustworthy except that the Soviet government did not trust people from national groups whose membership was mostly located outside of the Soviet state.
The so-called Jewish faction of the Soviet government got around the problem by denying the existence of of Jewish nationality. Hence the members of the Jewish faction and especially the Jews in the Jewish section worked hard to extirpate Yiddish culture even if the non-Jews did not care much.
Soviet identity for Russian Jews even if not listed as evreiski on Soviet ID seems to have been strongly tied to Jewish identity, and there has beenresearch in the area since Russian Jews (even those residing outside the Soviet Union) seem to have en masse become Zionists with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.
There are arguments in the literature about the role of Jewish identity among Soviet Jewish Communist leaders and exactly how much autonomy they had to carry out an "ethnic" agenda.
In the first two decades of the Soviet Union, groups against which ethnic Ashkenazim had a particular animus like Ukrainian peasants and Russian Germans seem to have been subject to particularly harsh treatment.
In particular, the Russian Jewish role in managing and speculating on Ukrainian agriculture meant that many Russian Jews had precisely to sort of knowledge to engineer local and district by district famine in the Ukraine. There is a lot of argument on the issue, but a former Russian Jewish Kommissar, Lev Kopelev, has confirmed the animosity of Jewish Soviets in their dealings with the Urkainian peasantry.
==============
The organized Jewish community was never particularly interested in the Civil Rights agenda. It was of more interest to Jewish radicals.
However both the organized Jewish community and Jabotinskians seem to have made opportunistic use of civil rights.
For the former, equal rights for blacks was seen as a tide that could push Jews into the American elite.
For Jabotinskians, civil rights was a distraction from the crimes Zionists planned to commit against the native Palestinian population.
Now that Jews have moved into the elite, the civil rights agenda is of less importance and probably a hindrance to the goals of Jabotinskians/Neocons and a large part of the organized Jewish community. (There seems to be some worry that too much opposition to civil rights will drive African Americans to support Palestinians.)
===========
Friedmanism is economic snake-oil justified by mathematical pettifoggery, but there is some similarity with Marxism in ideas about withering away of the state.
Whereas Zionism was a competitor with Jewish Marxism, Friedmanism has signs of being an internal Jewish reaction to Jewish Marxism.
====
I am not arguing that Jews "own" hi-tech or finance. There is evidence that Jewish power in the US and the existence of the State of Israel is enabling a group of hyperwealthy Jewish Zionists to skew outcomes in venture and vulture capital investment to make themselves wealthy and to co-opt new members into the club.
Many years ago I looked fairly extensively at the Stock Market Crash. Goldman, Sachs representing the now displaced German Jewish elite seems to have caused it and to have profited from it
=====
There is definitely an anti-democratic current in Jewish thought, and it has definitely found a home among Zionists, who have never paid any attention to the democratic wishes of the native Palestinian population.
The historic form of Jewish anti-democratic behavior is service to an autocratic elite, and the most famous example is the arenda system that led to the Chmienicki Rebellion.
Zionist writings have often envisioned that the Zionist state would serve as a manager for an arenda/estate that would consist of the Arab world.
===========
Coming from a Jewish studies background, I am skeptical of the Jewish liberal agenda, which usually seems to me like an agenda of self-interest. There is nothing wrong with such behavior per se. I just object to the misrepresentation.
============
"Judonia," which is my term for the collective Israel lobbying and Israel advocacy efforts in the USA, is not meant to correspond to all Jews.
I am trying to point out that the Israel Lobby is not a Lobby in any recognizable sense. It exploits the vast majority of Jew as a small group of of relatively anonymous "investors" reap tremendous benefits both from the State of Israel and from the existence of an "army" of supporters of Israel in the USA.
For all intents and purposes Judonia has parasitized Jewish communal organizations in those cases where it has not simply taken them over.
The second part of the paper will be The Genesis of the Lobby.
I apologize if I am not making my point clearly enough.
Ok, this is good. Ethnic Jews are really furious at anyone who says that Murdoch is Jewish. It's really strange. I've been pummeled by them for saying this.
On Feb 12, 2008 12:32 PM, Joachim Martillo wrote:
I met Murdoch a few times while he openly owned the Boston Herald.
He was into his ethnic Jewish connection even if he has no interest in Jewish religion. His mother's family the Greenes was supposed to have been very much into being ethnically Jews.
His ethnic loyalties are supposed to be a source of tension within his family or at least with his son.
Here is a summary of his ancestry that I saw on the web.
==============
Rupert (actually Keith Rupert) Murdoch's father was Keith Murdoch (died 1952), his mother Elisabeth Joy (nee Greene) and yes her mother, Marie Grace de Lancey Forth was born from a Jewish mother.
Rupert's paternal grandfather, Patrick John, was the REV., the maternal grandmother was Marie Grace de Lancey Forth, who was born in Warnambool VIC (Australia), HER mother Caroline Jemima (nee Sherson) was born to a Jewish family, hence by "Jewish law", making Rupert Jewish.
Also for the record, it was not unheard of "way back then" for Protestants or Catholics to marry Jews and I know this as my grandparents are prime example. My grandfather, born Ireland, 1895 to a prominent
protestant family, married a Jewish woman, making my father and all his siblings Jews.
The Jewish ancestry comes purely from the MATERNAL line and has squat to do with the paternal.
It should also be noted that many Jewish families settled in Australia post 1788.
To the initial poster. Here is a starting point got you to check on Rupert's heritage. I hope it helps you in your quest.(link below)
PS. Frankly, I don't understand what the big deal IS about him being "technically" a Jew.
Why does everyone care so much anyway? *shrug*
This is not acceptable anymore in the US. MacDonald points out that ethnic Ashkenazim have the latest age of sexual initiation in the US at the moment. Perhaps the Orthodox marry early; I have no idea, but most US Jews now are secular. It doesn't really matter the behavior of EA in Europe - we need to talk about now. Saying that EA engage in early sexual initiation in the US is simply not true.
=============
As for early sexual initiation it makes a big difference whether one refers to ethnic Jews (ethnic Yiddish) or religious Jews. I am referring to ethnic Yiddish or ethnic Ashkenazi.
Ethnic Ashkenazim have an historic pattern of early marriage followed by divorce and then repeated several times again.
Among Catholic and Orthodox populations in E. Europe, they were considered promiscuous.
This stuff about Soviet Jews is interesting, but I do not think it is very important. Most US Jews are not Commies, dislike Stalin and even think he was an anti-Semite. The Holodomor did not exist. No one was starved deliberately. The Kulaks destroyed 60% of the livestock in the USSR and much of the grain and crops in their region by burning or not planting. This was combined with a horrible drought.
There was generalized famine all over the USSR that year, even in Moscow, and there were deaths everywhere. 400,000 Kulaks died being moved out of the region, though. The USSR tried to feed the population but they did not have much food. Almost all the deaths were due to disease, not starvation. Most of the pics of the Holodomor are proven to be fakes from the 1921 famine.
There was no hostility towards Ukrainian peasantry. The hostility was towards the kulaks who had been screwing the peasants forever. Life expectancy of 32 yrs pre-Bolshevik shows this. Ukrainians enlisted en masse against the Nazis, volunteering and then forming huge guerrilla bands. None of this is possible with a deliberate starvation. Collectivization dramatically improved the lives of Ukrainian peasants.
Ukrainian nationalists are Nazis and the whole Holodomor thing was pushed by Heart in league with Hitler. There were ~1.5 million deaths, many outside of the Ukraine. But the kulaks were trying to starve the whole USSR. Many kulaks took up arms against the state. At one point there were 20-30 attacks per day.
=================
From the standpoint of Russian and Russian Jewish history the disproportionate involvement of Jews in the upper ranks of the Russian and Soviet Communist Party is important.
Radicalism in the Czarist Empire tended to be a sort of revenge of Russianized populations, who felt they were prevented from rising as high as they should because the Empire favored ethnic Russians.
Russian Jews were important to Lenin because of all Russianized populations only they were prohibited from serving in the government (with some specific exceptions).
Thus as Communists they were considered some of the most trustworthy except that the Soviet government did not trust people from national groups whose membership was mostly located outside of the Soviet state.
The so-called Jewish faction of the Soviet government got around the problem by denying the existence of of Jewish nationality. Hence the members of the Jewish faction and especially the Jews in the Jewish section worked hard to extirpate Yiddish culture even if the non-Jews did not care much.
Soviet identity for Russian Jews even if not listed as evreiski on Soviet ID seems to have been strongly tied to Jewish identity, and there has been research in the area since Russian Jews (even those residing outside the Soviet Union) seem to have en masse become Zionists with the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.
There are arguments in the literature about the role of Jewish identity among Soviet Jewish Communist leaders and exactly how much autonomy they had to carry out an "ethnic" agenda.
In the first two decades of the Soviet Union, groups against which ethnic Ashkenazim had a particular animus like Ukrainian peasants and Russian Germans seem to have been subject to particularly harsh treatment.
In particular, the Russian Jewish role in managing and speculating on Ukrainian agriculture meant that many Russian Jews had precisely to sort of knowledge to engineer local and district by district famine in the Ukraine. There is a lot of argument on the issue, but a former Russian Jewish Kommissar, Lev Kopelev, has confirmed the animosity of Jewish Soviets in their dealings with the Ukrainian peasantry.
==============
The organized Jewish community was never particularly interested in the Civil Rights agenda. It was of more interest to Jewish radicals.
However both the organized Jewish community and Jabotinskians seem to have made opportunistic use of civil rights.
For the former, equal rights for blacks was seen as a tide that could push Jews into the American elite.
For Jabotinskians, civil rights was a distraction from the crimes Zionists planned to commit against the native Palestinian population.
Now that Jews have moved into the elite, the civil rights agenda is of less importance and probably a hindrance to the goals of Jabotinskians/Neocons and a large part of the organized Jewish community. (There seems to be some worry that too much opposition to civil rights will drive African Americans to support Palestinians.)
===========
Friedmanism is economic snake-oil justified by mathematical pettifoggery, but there is some similarity with Marxism in ideas about withering away of the state.
Whereas Zionism was a competitor with Jewish Marxism, Friedmanism has signs of being an internal Jewish reaction to Jewish Marxism.
Would like to see some evidence for the assertion below.
====
I am not arguing that Jews "own" hi-tech or finance. There is evidence that Jewish power in the US and the existence of the State of Israel is enabling a group of hyperwealthy Jewish Zionists to skew outcomes in venture and vulture capital investment to make themselves wealthy and to co-opt new members into the club.
Many years ago I looked fairly extensively at the Stock Market Crash. Goldman, Sachs representing the now displaced German Jewish elite seems to have caused it and to have profited from it
=====
There is definitely an anti-democratic current in Jewish thought, and it has definitely found a home among Zionists, who have never paid any attention to the democratic wishes of the native Palestinian population.
The historic form of Jewish anti-democratic behavior is service to an autocratic elite, and the most famous example is the arenda system that led to the Chmielnicki Rebellion.
Zionist writings have often envisioned that the Zionist state would serve as a manager for an arenda/estate that would consist of the Arab world.
===========
Coming from a Jewish studies background, I am skeptical of the Jewish liberal agenda, which usually seems to me like an agenda of self-interest. There is nothing wrong with such behavior per se. I just object to the misrepresentation.
============
"Judonia," which is my term for the collective Israel lobbying and Israel advocacy efforts in the USA, is not meant to correspond to all Jews.
I am trying to point out that the Israel Lobby is not a Lobby in any recognizable sense. It exploits the vast majority of Jew as a small group of of relatively anonymous "investors" reap tremendous benefits both from the State of Israel and from the existence of an "army" of supporters of Israel in the USA.
For all intents and purposes Judonia has parasitized Jewish communal organizations in those cases where it has not simply taken them over.
The second part of the paper will be The Genesis of the Lobby.
I apologize if I am not making my point clearly enough.
I did take a quick look, and will offer only one suggestion. You begin by adopting (and extending) the W-M thesis that support for Israel harms the US national interest. There are very clear tactical conclusions for W-M and others who believe this thesis, and want to end US support for Israel: go to the corporate headquarters of Lockheed-Martin, Intel, Buffett, Citigroup, etc., and explain politely to them that their interests are being harmed by a lobby that they can put out of existence in five minutes with their economic and political clout. Why isn't that tactic adopted?
I just considered that paragraph an attention grabber. I agree that national interest is an ill defined concept. And in truth if we had a public discussion of the issues and the informed public consensus decided to support Israel (as David Frum told me has already happened even though I never saw it), the people would have spoken.
I have not really seen a congressional debate either. Ron Paul has tried to talk about the issue, but he is usually ignored.
My wife and I worked on Somerville Divestment, which spent about $5k to put Israel related petitions on the ballot.
The JCRC Boston spent $1-1.2 million to defeat them. There is a very interesting political process taking place, but W&M really did not address any of it except to mention pace J. J. Goldberg that AIPAC is now more or less controlled by very wealthy donors. Who are they? They might actually have a well-defined group interest that they are pursuing.
I made the point to Professor Walt. He told me it was a different book. I agreed.
Anyway, whenever Cisco has come up against the Israel Lobby it failed.
Here is my experience: http://bridgenews.org/bridge_news/issue8backup/martillo.
It seems to me that national interest is worse than an ill-defined concept. It's a mystical concept. We know -- unless we're purposely blind -- that the corporate sector has an enormous role in determining policy (even if John Dewey was somewhat exaggerating when he described politics as the shadow cast by business over society). We also know that pro-Israel PACs are vastly outspent by numerous others, and that the corporate sector could swamp AIPAC etc in a moment, if they chose. But they seem to be very pleased with a high-tech militarized client state in the ME, as we can see by their investment and other behavior. So how is Israel harming "the national interest," as determined by those who largely set policy?
I have no idea what Frum is talking about, but the major polls show that a large majority of Americans support the international consensus that the US-Israel unilateraly bar, that they think aid to Israel and Palestinians should be equalized, and barred to either side that does not support the international consensus. Is this informed? Doubtless not. How could it be when the media and commentary are so radically biased in support of US-Israel policies (the major part of the lobby, as W-M define it, and which they ignore, because it undermines their framework).
Very interested to learn about your experiences. Parenthetically, I think it's misleading to regard that Mohel as representing Israeli culture, though doubtless it's a lot of it. And in places like Hebron, it's utterly outlandish. But even in Israel proper the racism is doubtless extreme, against Mizrahim as well. I've seen it repeatedly since my first visit there in 1953, at the Kibbutz Artzi kibbutz that was the center of their Arab outreach program, more or less Buberite in background (then -- not now). Still, the Mohel would horrify plenty of Israelis, I suspect a majority, at least as of a few years ago. The degeneration in past few years has been remarkable, and I think it's gone hand in hand with improvement of relations with the US corporate world.
Very good! You succeeded to free yourself from Palestine-centered vision of the problem. Palestine/Israel is just a visible top of the iceberg which you try to show. Judonia is an extra-territorial body, and Israel is just a sign they can have a territory if they wish. Looking forward for next draft.
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